First off, Pratts WAY pleased theres some folk seeing the truth, like WC!! He was thinking it was only gentiles pretty much reading the blog now, and he wasnt knowing if we were converting folk much. Im sure glad SOME can see what a way wonderful life this is. What a blessing to be in our group!!!
Tony was asking what LaBlessing and Celestial Rainbow're thinking about being married together. Im not really knowing the answer to that one - they dont seem to be talking about it. All Im hearing from Celestial Rainbow is going on about tending all the babies!! Then there was the time she was talking to that young guy at work, so it could be she was wishing to be married to a younger guy, but we're praying she's over all that stuff now and settling down when her baby comes.
There ARE gals getting married again after being married before. Widows ALWAYS get married again cus they need a preisthood head to be telling them and there kids what to do and taking care of them. Course, there married for TIME the second time around, cus theyve got a forever marriage with there dead husband. Any kids she gets with her new husband belong to her FIRST husband, and theyll be in HIS kingdom when he gets it. Then theres gals getting married cus there husband went off somewhere else and left them, so they need husbands. Then theres other gals who get a release from there forever marriage cus there husband did something real bad like adultry and stuff like that. A lot of times she gets married to one of the bretheren whose been giving her advice.
I tried REAL hard last night making a wholesome meal sos LiaHona could be seeing what good cooking is like! I did my garlic and grits cassarole. Its the best!!!! I was thinking it could be making her do some real cooking, but I was right about what she was cooking for Harmonee and the kids - it was hot dogs, white bread and heapsve ketchup and mustard! When Harmonees kids came in the kitchen the first food they were seeing was my cassarole and I was thinking theyd be WAY sad theyd have to be eating LiaHonas meal, but they ate evry scrap of the hot dogs and then they were asking for more. I said they could have the cassarole but they all said no thanks! They dont know what good food is!!!
I think they were thinking I was going over to Saraiahs, but I just hung round in the kitchen clearing stuff up and listening to what they were saying. They went in the sitting room after a bit. It was hard to be hearing after that, but I think they were saying about the kids not seeing Pratt enough, and wishing they could get him to have ALL the kids get some proper schooling. Harmonee was saying home schools OK when you doing it right, but kids shouldnt be teaching kids when there mothers're away.
Pratts RIGHT about the kids not going out to be taught by gentiles! When there taught at home they can be doing preisthood history along with the other stuff and there NOT getting that in public school. Just cus Harmonees sending her kids to the public school isnt making it right! It makes all kindsa problams with them wanting to be bringing kids home, and wanting to go to there friends homes to. Thats just not gonna work for our famly - we dont need to be bringing strangers in to see how we're living, and we dont want the kids getting to close to outsiders and wanting to marry gentiles and losing there glory in the next life. Its better staying on our own and keeping our kids in the truth!!
Im starting a new craft today but Im gonna have to hurry, cus its for Valentines day for Pratt. He'll be loveing it!!!! I wanted him to be taking me out on Valentines but he says it could be making trouble, so he'll have to think what to do.
Blessings!
HoneyDawn
Killing cats and dogs
1 year ago
32 comments:
I'm joining the First Church of the Holy Matriarchs of WTF Ranch.
There I will be a priestesshood holder, with multiple husbands.
Sounds like fun, doesn't it ?
Honey Dawn said:
"theyve got a forever marriage with there dead husband"
Honey, you deserve a Pulitzer for that line.
I understand better now. Thanks. I've been studying polygamy for several months and can't find anything wrong with it. It's referenced in the bible in numerous places but for some reason it is not accepted. I believe it's because it provides a strong family and for some reason the government (law makers) don't want strong families. Anyways, I'll keep reading your blog, I find it very interesting.
Tony, your SO right. The guverments ALWAYS making trouble! I think itll be WAY better without guverment. One day the preisthoods gonna be the guverment! Keep on reading and seeing the AWESOME strong famly we've got cus of polygamy!
Demoiselle, a bunchve gals like that church to, but Pratt says not to be joining. He says youll be liking polygamy better.
Honey Dawn,
I hope that Pratt likes your Valentine Day's gift and that you get to spend that evening out with him. You are so sensitive you need him more than your sister wives
hhg
Tony -
You are mistaken.
There is NO evidence in the medical literature that polygamy forms "strong" or stable families. The divorce rate in polygamous families is much higher than the divorce rate in monogamous unions, except in countries which observe Sharia law where women have no right to file a divorce action.
Medical studies indicate that women and children in polygamous relationships have poor mental health outcomes. I suggest that you do a google search on the effect of polygamy on women and children to review the data for yourself. The research data is not favorable.
Since you cite the Bible, as I recall, most of the polygamous unions in the Bible were very troubled, so I don't know where you get the impression that polygamy forms "strong" families.
Speaking as a physician who has treated many women who found polygamy unsatisfactory, I would suggest you reconsider your opinion.
Susan the MD
Thanks for the comments Susan. Can you provide references?
I'm not interested in references such as this one, http://www.traumaawareness.org/id19.html, that focus primarily on the negative impact resulting from a cultish method of operation. I understand the negative impact of living in forced secrecy, having to report to an all-powerful single leader(prophet)and being "married off" at a young age can have on the people involved and do not agree with any of these items.
I would be interested in a reference that reviews negative and positive aspects for a polygamous family who lives openly within a broader community and by choice, not by mandate or assignment.
As it stands, during the first half of the 1900s, the US govt pressured the LDS church into abolishing the practice. As a result, a proclamation was issued that it was to be prohibited which was presented as some sort of divine revelation. I find this unbelievable from both organizations and believe this was an unacceptable government intrusion in the lives of families. That being said, this may make it difficult to provide the type of reference I request because those practicing polygamy in the U.S. do so in secrecy to avoid the attention of the government. Maybe you have something from abroad?
Your other comments assume I meant what is commonly imagined as today's approach to polygamy and that is definitely an understandable assumption. I will not reply to them directly because I had not made myself entirely clear. Please understand that it is possible to separate the family model from what is most commonly understood as today's polygamy practices. Acceptance of the former does not imply acceptance of the latter however.
Thanks,
Tony
demoiselle,
That is available, it's called polyandry but you can always adopt the more modern movement of polyamory, a relationship free-for-all where you can have a web of relations in any arrangement of male/female you desire without any obligations other than to be open about it. Think about it, no family obligations and it's all about you and sex. Pretty sweet huh?
Tony
HHG, most of the studies on polygamy are funded by those with an agenda.
Also nearly all of the studies on polygamy were done in third world countries whose income level, disease rates, and general standard of living are far lower than in the industrialized world. Therefore it is useless to try to extrapolate the results of such research and apply it to polygamous cultures in modern 1st world countries.
In case you didn't notice, nearly all sociological studies that make comparisons between nations..literacy rates among HS students for example, only nations and states with similiar income levels and rates of development are considered valid when doing those types of rankings.
duane
Anonymous said...
demoiselle,
That is available, it's called polyandry but you can always adopt the more modern movement of polyamory, a relationship free-for-all where you can have a web of relations in any arrangement of male/female you desire without any obligations other than to be open about it. Think about it, no family obligations and it's all about you and sex. Pretty sweet huh?
Tony
February 4, 2010 10:24 AM
----------------------------------
Tony, Pratt says to ask if your other names Alamo? He says "Pretty sick huh?"
Tony, Pratt says to ask if your other names Alamo? He says "Pretty sick huh?"
---------
Good one HoneyDawn, you have a great sense of humor, glad you were able to keep that!
There are plenty of medical studies done on polygamy from Israel, Malaysia, Turkey, Indonesia,Syria, Africa, and the UAE where polygamy is legal and accepted.
The average income rates in Indonesia, Syria, Turkey and Malaysia are certainly similar to the US, and women are often well educated in those countries. These women were not members of cults, nor were they fundamentalist Mormons.
The women in these studies were primarily Muslims and Christians, and the consent of the first wife was considered to be mandatory before a man took a second wife.
The findings in the studies are consistent cross culturally.
Senior wives and children are negatively affected by polygamy.
There is yet to be any research study which demonstrates a positive effect of polygamy on women and children, or outcomes similar to monogamy in terms of mental health for women and children.
As a physician practicing in NY for over 20 yrs, I have certainly treated many Muslim women in polygamy, many were wealthy and well educated, and not one was happy with it. All but one of my patients left her polygamous marriage.
Feelings of loneliness, depression, jealousy, low self esteem, and an increased incidence of psychosomatic illness in polygamous women are consistent features which were observed independent of socioeconomic status in all cultures where polygamy has been studied.
I would not expect the psychiatric findings to be different simply because someone lives in the US, or because they have more money.
There are over 50 articles which indicate these findings alone in English, and even more in Arabic.
I suggest if you are interested that you do a literature search on Medline or OVID, or use the Google Scholar program for articles from Peer Reviewed Medical journals,
The reference labeled "trauma awareness" by Tony is not one of the studies which I am making reference to.
Susan the MD
Susan, I will search Google Scholar and see what I can find. No offense intended, but peer reviewed papers don't carry as much weight as they once did. As soon as one understands that many an agenda lurks behind the paper their value is greatly diminished. I'm especially hesitant when it comes to anything that could be related to social engineering.
Pratt,
I do not have another name of Alamo and don't get the joke. My post to demoiselle was sarcasm.
Tony
Duane,
My response to you is as follows :
1) "most of the studies on polygamy are funded by those with an agenda"
Response : Incorrect.
Most of the polygamy research studies were done by Muslim male physicians. Almost all of the studies were unfunded, and performed under the supervision of medical schools in Muslim countries. Most mental health research is unfunded, unless it involves drug research.
Physicians who teach in medical schools are required to do research and publish in order to maintain their faculty positions. I know this, as I am on the faculty of a medical school in the NY Metro Area.
2) "nearly all of the studies on polygamy were done in third world countries whose income level, disease rates, and general standard of living are far lower than in the industrialized world. area."
Response : Untrue. Most of the research was NOT done in the third world. Most of the research was done in industrialized nations including Israel (among Muslim Arabs), also in Syria, Jordan,UAE, Turkey, Indonesia, and Malaysia. Income, disease rates, and standards of living are roughly equivalent to our standards in those countries, in fact, maternal and infant mortality rates are often lower in those countries due to socialized medicine and welfare support systems not available in the US.
Duane, if you are going to comment on the medical literature, please actually read it before you make comments about its content.
Susan the MD
I couldn't get the full study but here is the abstract. Comments?
Tony
-=-=-
Short Report
Symptoms of anxiety and depression and mother's marital status: An exploratory analysis of polygyny and psychosocial stress
Crystal Patil 1 *, Craig Hadley 2
1Department of Anthropology, University of Illinois at Chicago, Chicago, Illinois 60607-7139
2Department of Anthropology, Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia 30322
Abstract
Many biocultural studies have examined the fitness consequences of polygynous marriage for women in Africa. Few studies have examined the mental health correlates of polygynous marriage despite the emerging interest by human biologists in mental health outcomes. In this study, we tested for an association between measures of psychosocial stress and marital status in a representative sample of 408 mothers in two Tanzania communities. Results showed no association between measures of psychological distress and marital status. Our results suggest that despite the widely cited reproductive costs to polygynously married women, there do not appear to be accompanying costs to mental health. Am. J. Hum. Biol., 2008. © 2008 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
I'm not a researcher or statistician, but I would think that the psychological effects of living in a polygamous family would vary depending upon the culture in which that society was based.
So it would make sense that there were less adverse effects reported in African and middle eastern Muslim countries, where polygamy is socially acceptable, so there is no need for secrecy and the laws and other institutions of that country take the needs of polygamous families into account, and the social structure has evolved support mechanisms for those experiencing difficulties within their polygamous relationships.
It would be a very different story in countries such as the USA and most European countries, where there is a need, either percieved or real, for secrecy for fear of government action or social disapproval, where our families and lifestyles have not been structured for many generations to include polygamy, where we do not have the cultural and legal checks and balances that evolve in countries with a long history of polygamy.
And of course wives who have been raised in a society that stresses the right we all have to meet our "soulmate" and live the happily ever after fairy tale are going to be less happy sharing their husband than women who have been raised to expect an arranged, polygamous marriage, much like their own mothers, and taught to seek intamacy among other women instead of primarily with their husband.
It seems that attempting accurate comparison is difficult and possibly pointless.
Melissa xx
Tony,
This is not an objective medical article from a peer reviewed medical journal.
It is not produced by mental health professionals.
It is produced by anthropologists, who have no training in mental health whatsoever, nor do they have experience in performing psychometric testing.
This is a paper from a third world non industrialized country.
The foremost researcher on the topic of the effect of polygyny on the family is Alean Al - Krenawi, PhD, a psychiatric social worker under the supervision of psychiatrists in Israel. Surely you found all his articles when you did your literature search ?
A Comparison of Family Functioning, Life and Marital Satisfaction, and Mental Health of Women in Polygamous and Monogamous Marriages
Alean Al-Krenawi
Ben-Gurion University
John R. Graham
University of Calgary, Calgary, Canada
Background: A considerable body of research concludes that the polygamous family structure has an impact on children’s and wives’ psychological, social and family functioning.
Aims: The present study is among the first to consider within the same ethnoracial community such essential factors as family functioning, life satisfaction, marital satisfaction and mental health functioning among women who are in polygamous marriages and women who are in monogamous marriages.
Method: A sample of 352 women participated in this study: 235 (67%) were in a monogamous marriage and 117 (33%) were in a polygamous marriage.
Results: Findings reveal differences between women in polygamous and monogamous marriages. Women in polygamous marriages showed significantly higher psychological distress, and higher levels of somatisation, phobia and other psychological problems. They also had significantly more problems in family functioning, marital relationships and life satisfaction.
Conclusion: The article calls on public policy and social service personnel to increase public awareness of the significance of polygamous family structures for women’s wellbeing.
The Journal of Social Psychology
Volume 148, Number 6 / December 2008
BTW, there are over 45 more studies produced by experienced, qualified medical professionals on the topic, just in the English language.
Melissa,
I concern myself with medical literature from peer reviewed journals on polygyny. Research from industrialized countries on patients with similar levels of education and socioeconomic status produce data which can be extrapolated to the American population, according to mental health experts.
Tony,
Since you have an interest in the literature on African polygyny, surely you saw this in your literature search? :
Social Science & Medicine
Volume 68, Issue 1, January 2009, Pages 21-29
Polygyny and Women's Health in Sub-Saharan Africa
Riley Bovea,MD and Claudia Valeggia, PhD
Department of Medicine, Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, 55 Fruit street, Boston, MA 02114, USA
Department of Anthropology, University of Pennsylvania, 3260 South street, Philadelphia, PA 19104, USA
Available online 24 October 2008.
Abstract
In this paper we review the literature on the association between polygyny and women's health in sub-Saharan Africa. We argue that polygyny is an example of “co-operative conflict” within households, with likely implications for the vulnerability of polygynous women to illness, and for their access to treatment. We begin with a review of polygyny and then examine vulnerability to sexually transmitted infections (STIs, including HIV) and differential reproductive outcomes. Polygyny is associated with an accelerated transmission of STIs, both because it permits a multiplication of sexual partners and because it correlates with low rates of condom use, poor communication between spouses, and age and power imbalances among other factors. Female fertility is affected by the interplay between marital rank, household status, and cultural norms in polygynous marriages. Finally, we present areas which have received only cursory attention: mental health and a premature, “social” menopause. Although data are scarce, polygyny seems to be associated with higher levels of anxiety and depression, particularly around stressful life events. It is our hope that the examples reviewed here will help build a framework for mixed method quality research, which in turn can inform decision makers on more appropriate, context-dependent health policies.
Susan the MD
Tony,
I just logged onto our university's electronic library system and read your article in full text format.
The anthropological article which you cited has nothing to do with marital satisfaction.
The article concerns itself with the levels of psychosocial stress experienced by polygamous vs. monogamous women in relation to their ability to obtain food for their family during periods of drought in Africa. It has nothing to do with how they feel about their husbands or their marriages.
In what way is this applicable to the average American family ?
Perhaps you should read the full text of the article before you cite it ?
Susan the MD
Hi Susan,
I took 5 minutes and found an article that presented your opposite view from the abstract just to show it's possible. I only read the abstract because I don't have full access, regardless it seems to have upset you greatly. That's unfortunate because future dialog has a high probability of being tainted.
I recently saw an article that suggest polygamy in African communities contributed to a reduction in the spread of Aids. I don't recall it touched on the mental health aspects, but again, the opposite of what you have posted. I merely ask, how is that even possible? How can one article say that it promotes sexually transmitted diseases and another says it limits them? I don't question your articles, I question them all!
Though we don't necessarily agree on much at this point, I applaud your devotion to the subject and tell you feel passionately about it. In a world full of distractions, that is admirable ... unless of course you are part of a polygamy watch dog group and it's your job.
Curious, what is your recommended family model?
Tony
Hi Melissa,
Thanks for your observations, they make perfect sense to me. I'm not sure if researching abroad is pointless though because I'd simply like an answer to "How well does it work in a society that accepts it, and if poorly, why?" There has been a lot said, but seriously, that's all I'm after at this point. :)
Tony
Susan,
I've been thinking more about your strong push to review mental health studies re: polygamy. Perhaps we should include mental health studies related to monogamy as well. I feel it has been implied by it's lack of inclusion that all is well with the currently accepted family model (monogamy) but is that really true?
I don't know the answer, but according to divorcerate.org, "The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage is 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce." I didn't realize the numbers; wow!
Tony
Hey, Susan, if you're going to trade on being an MD, you might want to mention your specialty. I believe that you intentionally lead people to believe that you're a psychiatrist, or have some psychiatric credentials.
You and I both know you're not a psychiatrist (although there certainly may be people who get "physiatrist" and "psychiatrist" confused...). As far as I can find from your public information, you have no particular psychiatric education or experience, either. You seem to have just about the same level of credentials in this debate as, say, an anthropologist.
You say you've "treated many women who found polygamy unsatisfactory". What was the medical linkage between polygamy and the conditions they were seeing you for? Was it a psychiatric one? If not, why is your experience any more relevant than, say, my having met some women down at the laundromat who found polygamy unsatisfactory?
I don't know about MEDICAL ethics, but it's definitely a breach of ACADEMIC ethics to lead people to believe you have qualifications or data you don't in fact have. Especially when engaged in political activism.
And why are we having this supposedly serious conversation on a satirical blog? And does everybody here actually realize that the blog is satire? And is that OK?
Anonymous said...
Hey, Susan, if you're going to trade on being an MD, you might want to mention your specialty. I believe that you intentionally lead people to believe that you're a psychiatrist, or have some psychiatric credentials....etc.
-----------------------------------
Anonymous, whoever you are (and are you afraid to put some kind of name to your post?) Why is it that when individuals are unable to deal with the facts, they instead turn to attacking the person presenting them? I believe that Susan has always used the suffix "MD" in all of her posts, so why are you criticizing her and arguing about whether she is a psychiatrist? That is totally irrelevant to the studies she is quoting from, and as an MD she would have direct experience with her patients.
I can’t tell you how I feel, hearing from these men who are so intent on disproving that there are any ill effects to women directly arising from polygyny. I spent 17 years married monogamously and another 19 years in a polygynous marriage with the same man, so I have a fairly clear picture of what that meant to me. In addition I was able to closely observe the effects on the women around me in the community in which I lived.
I was not coerced into polygny. I come from an educated western background but became involved because I believed it was a religious duty. I believed that it was God’s will for me. Even with that belief the experience caused intense anguish for me and for my children. Some will say it was because I was not brought up to live that way, but my observation is that many, many women who had been brought up in plural families experienced the same pain and depression, which was, without a doubt, directly linked to the marital arrangements. It was not acceptable to openly acknowledge one’s pain. One was encouraged to focus on the future blessings arising from the practice, and to express gratitude for one’s sister wives, because they were the means of achieving the future expected state of bliss. I don’t blame anyone except myself for my experiences. It was my choice, and a very bad one. Why do women stay? It is extremely difficult to take that step when one fears that one is damning oneself by leaving. What finally prompted my leaving was the realization that the situation was pretty dire for women, that it was not in fact a superior God-given, life style, but most of all it was not conducive to a good childhood for the abundance of children being brought up in what were in effect single parent families, unable to experience the joy that comes from having two parents actively involved, and with enough time and resources for their children. Monogamy is no guarantee of a successful marriage, but it has far more going for it in terms of the emotional and physical welfare of women and children.
Harmonee’s Friend
Harmonee’s Friend,
Thank you for your response but that really is disappointing if we are discussing satirical presentation. :/
If not, then two watchdogs monitoring the site, that is impressive HoneyDawn. You have really hit someone's radar.
"... hearing from these men who are so intent on disproving that there are any ill effects to women directly arising from polygyny."
Not intent on disproving, but I do want it proven one way or the other and I don't accept Susan's "peer reviewed studies" as ultimate proof knowing how corrupt the process can be.
I greatly appreciate your more personal response.
Tony
Anonymous @ 2:43 pm :
Care to tell us your name, your credentials, and what advocacy or lobbying group you are member of, so that we can provide similar critique?
You engage in a great deal of spin here, as you report that I have made claims which I never have made.
You also assume that polygyny only has effects on the mental health of women and children. I assure you that its effects on the family are not limited only to emotional well being.
Since you know so much about me, certainly you know that I am a physician who is board certified in both Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation and Pain Medicine, and that I am a professor at a medical school as well? You do realize that over 80% of patients with pain complaints have concomitant psychiatric illness, and that psychiatric assessment of the pain patient is a required competency of pain medicine practitioners, included in their training? I achieved a score above the 99% percentile from the National Board of Medical Examiners in psychiatry as a third year medical student. Less than 1% of the physicians in the nation can claim that distinction.
Certainly you know then that I am a published medical researcher, a medical educator, a hospital department chief, and an Assistant Chair of a Medical Research Institutional Review Board at a hospital in NY? Or that I was a County Medical Society President who advocated for women in polygynous relationships in NYC?
Certainly you know then that I hold an undergraduate degree in Biology, with a minor in Psychology, Summa Cum Laude from a major university in NYC?
Since you know so much about me, then you know I practice together with my husband, who is both a psychiatrist and internal medicine specialist? He was my former supervisor, and he was responsible for training me.
For 9 years, I treated Pakistani and African women in polygamous relationships as a pain medicine specialist, together with my husband. Many of these women suffered from psychosomatic pain complaints, related to the marital stress and discord. This is what led to my interest in reading peer reviewed journals written by mental health experts on the topic of the effect of polygamy on women and the family. The data is not mine, nor have I ever claimed that it was - the data was produced by primarily Muslim male physicians in countries where polygamy is legal and socially acceptable. There are about 50 peer reviewed articles on the topic. The data is not favorable for the practice of polygyny in terms of maternal and child welfare. Mothers and children are adversely affected by polygyny physically, financially, educationally, and psychologically.
I am not a psychiatrist, nor have I ever claimed to be, contrary to your assertion, Anonymous. I do have more training in the detection and treatment of mental illness than the average physician does, and I have my own home based resource in my husband to serve as my adviser when I have a question. As a published researcher and IRB Assistant Chair, I am trained to recognize medical research with sound study design produced in concert with best medical practices. Having found those studies relevant to the practice of polygyny, I intend to make the data widely known, in order to advocate for women and children’s rights.
Your assertion that I know less about women in polygamy and their well being than someone working in a laundromat is baseless, disrespectful, and crude (and probably sexist) – and it speaks to your own ignorance as well as fear that women may not like polygyny as well as you seem to like the concept.
I worked with polygynous women for 9 yrs, reviewed the medical literature, and the data is clear. I think you find the factual literature threatening…maybe you should give some thought as to why? ...
But then again, you probably feel that I have no right to suggest that you engage in introspection, since I am not a psychiatrist...
Susan The MD
Tony,
The article written by the cultural anthropologists did not concern itself with marital satisfaction. It concerned itself with levels of depression and anxiety felt by monogamous and polygamous women in Tanzania. Both groups were equally depressed and anxious about the possibility of death of either themselves or a family member in the case of famine or drought.
The study was performed by graduate students in anthropology, who are not trained to see patients, nor do they receive training in administering psychological testing instruments.
Physician researchers do have such training, and I am a physician researcher as well as a women's rights advocate.
As for the AIDS studies, most studies indicate that in Africa, polygamous families are at an increased risk of AIDS. There is only one study which indicates otherwise, and I believe that study was performed in a region of Africa which previously had not been investigated in other studies.
I would suggest that you read the medical literature on the topic of the effect of polygamy on women and children. Go to a medical school library and ask them to pull the articles for you in full text format.
If you want to read reports of women who were formerly involved in polygamy, consider reading Mary Mackert's book, Carolyn Jessop's book, Irene Spencer's book, or read the accounts of men who were former polygamists, like John Llewellyn or Brent Jeffs.
As for the ideal marital structure for children, I will quote Dr Elbedour, who is a Muslim physician researcher from Africa who now practices in the US at Howard University. He feels that studies have shown that the ideal structure for raising children is an intact monogamous marriage. It is not a guarantee, but it works better than polygamy, or single parent status in terms of child rearing.
FYI: Re : Divorce Rates
The divorce rate among polygamous couples in Indonesia is over 70% by the way. Looks worse than the statistics for monogamy in the US.
Susan The MD
Who are the two watchdogs monitoring this site and what exactly are they monitoring it for?
Melissa xx
Hello Harmonee's friend,
Your comment:
"I come from an educated western background but became involved because I believed it was a religious duty. I believed that it was God’s will for me"
has caught my attention, and I wish you could say more about it.
Certainly many societies, including modern societies, are structured around polygamy. Islam obviously permits it, but doesn't require it as a religious duty. Fundamentalist Mormonism seems to be alone in making it a religious edict, and with its illegality, seems to have become obsessed with protecting it as a way of life.
Were you a mainstream Mormon before you became polygamous? Did you eventually leave the polygamous life?
I just wish I could understand why a woman would want polygamy to begin with, but in addition, associate that desire with an experience of God's will.
On a practical level, trying to make a problematic situation amenable for 19 years is not alien to me at all. God knows I've put up with bad stuff for 19 years that I didn't need too before I finally figured out I was being a willing victim, and was able to walk away. Of course you didn't say you did any of that, but I would really like to hear whatever else you might like to share.
Many thanks.
Hi Mavis, I was raised as a mainstream Mormon and converted with my husband to Mormon Fundamentalism. We were dismayed by the constantly changing "truths" of modern Mormonism, and Fundamentalism appeared to be consistent with the early teachings of the men we considered to be prophets of God. It took me quite some time to realise that I was part of something man-made and it was quite a disastrous and very painful experience for our family. Ultimately, after much soul searching, and dealing with the fear of losing my place with God, I did in fact "walk away". It sounds as though you have met some challenges in your own life. I hope all is well with you now.
Harmonee's friend
Thank you Harmonee's Friend. That was a very clear response, and easy to follow. I am neither Mormon, nor religious, but got interested in Mormonism some years ago and started reading.
Like you, I was perplexed by the Mormon ability to assert Joseph Smith's prophecy as eternal, and as a rehabilitation of Christian truth, but then alter it over the years according to political expedience, and modern needs. It seemed to me, whether one believes in the religious duty of polygamy or not, or believes that God made commandments about racial hierarchy or not, that the fundamentalists are the ones abiding by the original prophecy.
How can modern Mormons justify having it both ways? Easy. The method used, is the bureaucratic institution of always having a new prophet, who receives new revelations. And from there one has to have a concept of God that is both eternal and temporal, etc… That is how shoddy rationale unfolds and is accepted.
I can also understand your concern about losing your place with God. Even reading about it gave me goosebumps, so thank you for being willing to put it in print.
I do apologize to Mormon readers for the indelicacy of my reference to Brigham Young as a thug, (elsewhere in this blog) but that happens to be my opinion. In fact, all of the FLDS men, that are presently in the news, strike me as thuggish. And when reading Warren Jeff’s dictations, that are presently available on the internet, I am constantly struck by the contrast between the ecstatic language he uses for everyday events, and the sheer brutality of those same events.
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